Emotional Intelligence and Leadership
We’re human. We all have emotions, including leaders. Some leaders might try to ignore their emotions, but sometimes it’s actually better to lean in—but not too far! Let’s explore emotional intelligence and how emotion, assertiveness, and independence are all a part of self-expression as a leader.
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Traci:
So looking back across my career and thinking about the power of emotion in the workplace is an interesting little journey. Because back in the early '90s when I started out in corporate America, emotions were not something that were really talked about all that much, but they were surely experienced. So I was in a high-stress, highly intense media environment. And television can be really emotional because everything needs to happen live. And so some of my first jobs in television, there was a lot of emotion, a lot of stress, a lot of yelling, a lot of anger, a lot of high highs and low lows when it came to the workplace. And I was an observer in the beginning because I was the low person on the totem pole. And so I did a lot of observing and watching of emotion.
Fast forward to today, the pendulum has swung a bit in the opposite direction.
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Welcome to the Overly Human Podcast where we discuss all things human in the workplace. Because it's not just business—it's personal too.
Traci:
So Rob, I wonder what was your experience like starting out and what do you see today?
Rob:
Yeah, my experience starting out was the exact opposite. I started my professional career working in engineering organizations and there was almost a unemotional component to it. Everything was very logical. Emotion had to be checked. When it did come up, it was criticized and critiqued and cast off and contained. Not that it wasn't there, but when it showed up and when you could recognize it, it was almost offensive.
And what I've seen in my career is it swing back from this very cold, very dry, unemotional start to having more emotion in the workplace and have it be something that's productive.
So almost the exact opposite of what you're experiencing.
Traci:
Yeah, and what's interesting now is I coach a lot of CEOs and owners, and depending on your experience, it's hard to know. So some people who have worked in corporate America have had maybe negative experiences with emotion, or I've seen movies of Steve Jobs or some of these really famous CEOs who are highly emotional and really passionate and want their idea to succeed at any cost. And it doesn't matter if that's human cost, they will tell people what they think in the crassest of ways.
And then I have some clients who have had no corporate business experience, or they're accidental entrepreneurs, started an idea right out of college, and next thing you know they're running their company. And so then this whole idea of how they're supposed to "act" as a leader is elusive. "Am I supposed to be transparent with my emotion? Am I not? Am I supposed to be stoic and strong? Am I supposed to be passionate and emotional? Am I supposed to be vulnerable?" Because vulnerability is such a huge word. "What does that mean? Does that mean I have to be transparent about every single emotion I have? How much should I be exposing? Doesn't that make me more authentic if I tell people every single thing I'm thinking or feeling?"
And so it's interesting because you and I were talking about the genesis of this, and it really comes from the experiences of generations and what has led to today and the hot topics and the hot buttons of today. And you know that I'm very passionate about emotional intelligence and trained in emotional intelligence. And so I'd like to take the people I coach through that model and really help them to understand that I'm not looking for super high emotion or super low emotion. What we're looking for is balance. That is so difficult, finding the right balance for your emotions in the workplace.
Rob:
Yeah, it's almost an art form, because it depends on the topic, it depends on the room, it depends on the situation, it depends on the moment, finding what balance is for that moment.
Because you're right. You're talking about vulnerability is such an important word. And vulnerability is so important because you can't have trust without vulnerability. We've talked at length over the years that trust is the foundation for everything we want to do. So we have to have some of that.
And I think that's a great place to maybe start and really quickly clarify is, we both believe regardless of where we came from exactly, is that emotions are important, they're a part of the human experience, and they're an important part of who we are and what we're doing. And there's clues in there about how we're feeling and what's going on in the inside. And all of those things are important to recognize that we're that way and all of the humans around us are that way. So we have to deal with them.
Traci:
We have to deal with them. And the thing is that you can't manage your emotions or the emotions of others if you aren't self-aware. And this is the biggest part of leadership. We always talk about leadership is a skill that you have to hone, and if you think you can just wake up one day and be a great leader, then you're probably not a very good leader. And having self-awareness is something that you kind of have to dig into every single day as a leader. You have to have a vocabulary of emotion. You need to understand what you're feeling and is that coming through and should it come through? There are some emotions that our staff doesn't really want to see spewed all over them.
If we think of any leader that we look up to or anybody we want sort of taking us into battle, it's not this highly crazy emotional person that's running around like a chicken with their head cut off. We want somebody who's in control and balanced and strong, but they're not stoic and robotic and we can't really figure out what they're feeling or thinking, and then we're in this state of confusion and fear because we don't really understand what's going on. So we don't want either end of the spectrum. This is why we talk about balance is key.
And when we look at these great leaders that we admire and we see this sort of calm yet authentic way they lean into not just a crisis but into every day, into how they're addressing problems, into how they're weighing things up.
And sometimes as new leaders or fearful leaders or leaders who haven't had good mentors or good examples, we can make bad choices with our emotions. We can be overly emotional and think that we need to show that we're very gregarious and we've got the whole thing figured out and we have no fear. Or we can be way too vulnerable, too transparent. We can just spew our emotions, I call it emotional vomit, when you really are letting the stress get to you and you just tell your staff everything and they're sitting there looking at you like... "We're not sure that this is the person we want to follow into battle."
So that can feel very scary for a lot of leaders because they're like, "Okay, now you've told me not to be all this one way and you told me not to be all this and the other way. What's the middle ground look like?" And that's why this is a hard nut to crack. And like you just said, it's an art form. It's a bit of an art.
Traci:
Hi, Overly Human Friends, it's Traci. And if you haven't heard, I wrote a book, it's called “What If There's More? Finding Significance Beyond Success” and it's out right now. If you're thinking about a career pivot, wanting to follow your dream, or just want to fall back in love with what you do, then I think this book is for you. And if you like what you read, please feel free to head on over and leave me a review. You can learn more at tracischubertbarrett.com and you can find “What If There's More” wherever you buy books. Thanks.
Rob:
Yeah, it is an art form, and so much of that goes back to that word self-awareness. But the other part of it is intention, is what are we trying to communicate and where are we trying to go? There is understanding and having that self-awareness of what's going on on the inside, and how it's influencing what I'm doing on the outside is really important.
One of the things that was a big moment for me many years ago is somebody said, "How important are your emotions in what you do?" And I said, "Well, no, I'm a logical person. I make decisions based on the facts in front of me and try to move on." And they were like, "That's cool you believe that, but you're wrong." And I was like, "Well, no, no, no, no, no." And they're like, "No, no, no. You're human, right?" And I said, "Yes, I'm a human, not a robot." And he's like, "You have emotions, and if you don't recognize how they're influencing you and their power within you, then you are actually going to be subject to them influencing you in ways that you don't understand. And if you can start to name them and start to recognize how they're impacting you, then you can decide and work with them."
And I was like, "Oh, that makes a lot more sense," recognizing that they're part of this human package, this meat suit that we all wear, and they're having this thing going on. And if I'm like that, then everybody else is like that, then we can start to piece together how collectively they're influencing things that are going on.
Traci:
Yeah. When we look at the tool of emotional intelligence, there's five different subscales that we look at, or I should say five different scales. And then there's three subscales within each of those. So there's 15 different numbers that you get when you're getting an EQI report. And what we're talking about here mainly is self-expression. Self-expression is one bucket, and within that there's three areas we look at. One is emotional expression, the second is assertiveness, and the third is independence.
And I love naming those three together because I think that's a really helpful framework when people are thinking about, "Okay, how do I show up well at work emotionally as a leader?" And so you think about, "Do I have balance with my emotional expression? Am I able to not be too high," which is again what we were talking about, that kind of emotional vomiting all over everybody, "or too low where I'm super stoic and nobody has any clue what I'm thinking or feeling?"
And then assertiveness. "Am I able to assert myself properly?" So I'm not regressing or hiding or turtling. When we see leaders who are conflict-averse, we'll say, "Oh, they're turtling. They're back in their shell." But I'm not highly aggressive either, where I'm screaming, slamming doors, can't handle something, storm out of the room, highly emotional. I'm assertive. I'm able to say what I'm thinking and feeling. And this is when I'm coaching clients like, "Use your words. Your words are your best gift."
And I talk about the feeling wheel. It's a tool a lot of therapists use, but I use it with my clients as well. It's a beautiful... You guys can download it anywhere on the internet. It's just an entire circle filled with words that are emotion words. And some of us need that because we only have a few emotion words that we're able to remember. "I'm angry, I'm sad, I'm happy." That's it. Some people, they don't have a lot of colors in the crayon box, so those are the only words they have. When you look at a feeling wheel, it really helps you, because you're like, "Oh, I can pull all these different words. And that really helps me to articulate to people what I'm actually feeling so that they understand," as opposed to having to show it all through your emotion.
And then the last piece is independence, which I think is really interesting. It's like, "As a leader, can I independently, objectively make a decision?" And this is what we're going back to when I'm talking about the leader we want to follow into battle.
So when we can look at our self-expression in this holistic kind of more complex way, it really helps us to be more self-aware. Because we can look at a day or a week or a month and say, "Okay, how did I do? Did I express myself well? Or was I too emotionally expressive? Was I too transparent and people couldn't take all of that from me? Or was I well-balanced? Or did I hold back on my emotions too much? Was I assertive? Did I speak clearly about what I was thinking and feeling?"
I was just coaching one of my clients a couple of weeks ago, and I was telling him how even when you don't know what you feel or you don't know if you have an opinion, to say that, to say, "You know what? I'm just processing. I'm not really sure what I think or feel right now, but I'm hearing you all. I just want you to know I'm with you, I hear you. It's just going to take me a little bit longer to process and then I'll get back to you," as opposed to not saying anything. Because then your staff thinks, "Oh, well, they don't care." And I think that can be really, really hard for a staff when they have to try to guess what you're thinking.
But that's just one helpful framework when we're trying to find balance.
Rob:
Yeah. I mean, I've said this for years, it's almost always okay to take a beat, right?
Traci:
Mm-hmm.
Rob:
It's the sign of intelligence that, "Oh, that's a lot of information," or, "That's a really good question. Can I think about that and get back with you?" Now, of course, there is a couple rare cases where you need to be decisive in the moment and all that fun stuff, but it's almost always okay to take a beat. But saying it out loud shows that you're engaged, shows that you're being thoughtful and not checked out.
Traci:
Right. And I think that sometimes as leaders, we have fear, or insecurities I should say. And we've talked about this in other episodes, where our insecurities can get the best of us and our imposter syndrome can get the best of us. When the insecurities rise up and we don't know it, is usually when our emotions are triggered. And we can either lash out at people or we can hold back because we feel scared about something that's happening. And that's really when our emotional intelligence is tested.
And so that's why being able to take a beat or being able to say, "I don't know," or being able to say, "I need a minute," is a really powerful step in pushing through imposter syndrome or pushing through insecurity when we don't feel like we have to be on the top of our game all the time to be respected as a leader.
Because that's what we all really want in leadership. We want to be almost believed that we're in the right seat and that we deserve to be where we're sitting. And we're our own worst critics, and we're always going to be wrestling with ourselves if we deserve to be in this seat. But our staff, for the most part, 99.9% of the time, want us to succeed, want us to be good leaders, want to see us shine. They're not rooting against us. And so when we remember that, then we're able to rest. We're able to relax into who we are, and that makes us stronger emotionally, and we can show up well and be able to take those moments to wrestle through collectively with our staff.
But at the same time, that goes back to the independence, still be able to make the decision. Ultimately, they love that we're listening to them and they love that we're getting the feedback, but we need to have the confidence to make the call.
Rob:
Yeah. And that showing up well is so much of the job, and showing up intentionally, and setting yourself up to, even when we confidently make a decision, be okay with, "Hey, there's a possibility that we may learn more information, and I'm going to set this up to be okay being wrong." Right?
Traci:
Yep. And I think the other caveat I'll throw in here too, or the other thing about emotion being such a powerful, powerful thing to understand in yourself, is also understanding other people's emotions.
Rob:
Mm-hmm.
Rob:
Well, it's that time again where we thank our sponsor, the Bureau of Digital, a community of digital makers that all get together and share and support each other. And today we have a special treat. Carl, the head of the Bureau is here with us.
Hey, Carl.
Carl:
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Rob:
And we really do appreciate it. And if you have any questions, check out bureauofdigital.com. The 2023 event schedule is up and live, and a big change for this year is if you join and become a member, all of the online events are included—and there's some really good ones. You don't want to miss out. So don't wait. Visit bureauofdigital.com.
Traci:
So I just call that being able to read the room. And some people are better at reading the room than others, but I do think you can learn to read the room as well. You can grow in that skill. And that's the other half of emotional intelligence, is being able to look around the room and notice that emotions are off. Even if it's just one person like, "Okay, Bob, I see a look on your face, and just tell me if I'm right or wrong. Are you feeling like you're not loving this situation right now? Or do you have an opinion you want to share with us?" Good leaders are able to sense if something's off or if they're missing something or everybody else knows something they don't, and they're not scared to take a moment and ask, "Is everybody okay? Am I missing something? I feel like there's a tension in the room. I want to hear what it is. I don't want to leave this meeting until I hear what it is."
Those are great leaders, people who can really handle, I should say, handle what the feedback might be. And they're not scared of it. Some leaders will run out of the room because they don't want the decision to change, they just want to move forward, and they don't want to hear people's feedback. And they're like, "I know people are unhappy, but I don't want to hear it and I'm just going to leave." That's a bad decision. You have to be able to not only recognize your emotions and handle your emotions, but you need to create the skill that you can manage and handle other people's emotion as well.
Rob:
Yeah. And for a lot of times, if we're making decisions in rooms full of people, you get that experience in your one-on-ones, right?
Traci:
Mm-hmm.
Rob:
That's where you learn somebody's emotions and you can ask for more explanation like, "Hey, how do you feel about this?" If we practice that and practice that and practice that in these one-on-one situations, we'll learn other people, what they're feeling, where they're going, what it looks like on their face, so that when we're in the meeting, when we're in the room trying to make hard decisions, we've got practice with easier things in a smaller sample size, right?
Traci:
Yep. And when you open up that environment too in a group as well, and they see that you know the employee, you know Bob because you're having great one-on-ones and you're able to recognize if he's uncomfortable or maybe there's something he hasn't said or put out on the table, and you create this safe environment for people to speak, it's very powerful. And one of the things it does is it shuts down gossip after the fact, or talk after the meeting. Because you create an environment where it's okay to let everything out in the meeting, and you expect people to, and you create an environment where they can. And so then when you're not in the room and people are talking, people are like, "Well, there's always an open door here. It's a safe environment." And I think that's really, really important to keep culture strong.
Rob:
Yeah. All comes back down to trust, doesn't it?
Traci:
Mm-hmm. It sure does. It sure does.
Rob:
All right. What's your takeaway this week, Traci?
Traci:
Well, like we said in the beginning, it's really, really important to be self-aware as a leader. And it can be scary, right? Because we're trying to find our blind spots and we're trying to work and become better each and every day. But I just want people to really understand that only good comes out of self-awareness ultimately. And to really do the work on emotional intelligence, get a book, read about it, really, really push yourself to expand your emotional vocabulary and learn what other people are feeling, ask. Like I always say, lead with curiosity.
Rob:
Yeah. Being able to name those emotions is huge. I think it was Brené Brown's latest book where she identified what, 87 different emotions?
Traci:
Yeah, something like that.
Rob:
And most people could name like 10. And knowing the difference between some of those. There's a lot of nuance in that language and how we use and how we express ourselves, right?
Traci:
Yes.
Rob:
Yeah. I think my big takeaway this week is that balance between being able to be vulnerable and transparent and not crossing that line into disclosure, and how to balance those ideas so that we can share as leaders how we arrive somewhere and recognize and demonstrate and model what emotion looks like in decision making, but not have it look like that it's a pure emotional decision that's run amuck, and finding that constant balance point. And so much of it is, what is the moment, what is the context, and how do we do that well?
Traci:
It's good stuff.
Rob:
Yeah. Thanks Traci.
Traci:
Thank you.
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The Overly Human Podcast is brought to you by Navigate the Journey and Sparkbox. For more information on this podcast, or to get in touch with Traci or Rob, go to overlyhuman.com. If you like what you've heard, subscribe and tell your friends to listen. Thanks.
